For surely they did not begrudge it to their children to become as good as possible. Hippias: They are, Socrates, if they are powerful and useful for good. But I said it with this reason for my thought; beautiful eyes, we say, are not such as seem to be so, which are unable to see, but those which are able and useful for seeing. Socrates: Well, he who knows best how to transmit horsemanship would be most honored in Thessaly of all parts of Greece and would receive most money — and anywhere else where horsemanship is a serious interest, would he not? Hippias: Yes, for it is not the inherited usage of the Lacedaemonians to change their laws or to educate their children differently from what is customary. Hippias: And by Zeus, Socrates, I have just lately gained reputation there by telling about noble or beautiful pursuits, recounting what those of a young man should be. Reference address :, HOME  |  GREEK LANGUAGE  |  LIBRARIES  |  BLOG  |  HELP  |  SEARCH  |  FREEWARE  |  BOOKSTORE, PLATO HOME PAGE  /  PLATO COMPLETE WORKS  /  SEARCH PLATO WORKS, Persons of the dialogue: Socrates - Socrates: “Then again, according to your statement, among the heroes it is terrible and impious and disgraceful for Tantalus and Dardanus and Zethus, but beautiful for Pelops and the others who were born as he was?”. Socrates: And certainly many such cases appear before my mind, but I mistrust them because they do not appear to you, a man who has made more money by wisdom than anyone now living, but to me who never made any money at all; and the thought disturbs me that you are playing with me and purposely deceiving me, they appear to me in such numbers and with such force. Are we to believe that, Hippias? Socrates: My dear Hippias, you are blessed because you know the things a man ought to practise, and have, as you say, practised them satisfactorily. Responsibility: Plato ; translated, with commentary and essay, by Paul Woodruff. Will you not be angry if I say that? Socrates: That suffices, Hippias; for even this is welcome, since it appears that some things are so and some are not so. Is not that true? Socrates: They would not be so, if the appearance of beauty were added to them; and it would be added, if the appropriate were beautiful and made things not only to be beautiful, but also to appear so. But tell me, as in the beginning: If pleasure through sight and pleasure through hearing are both and each beautiful, does not that which makes them beautiful belong to both and to each? Socrates: Then, according to what you say, it is more lawful for the sons of the Lacedaemonians to be educated by Hippias and less lawful for them to be educated by their fathers, if in reality they will be more benefited by you. or Greater Hippias, to distinguish it from the Hippias Minor, which has the same chief character) is one of the dialogues of Plato. Socrates: Yes, to be sure. Or does not Heracleitus, whom you cite, mean just this, that the wisest of men, if compared with a god, will appear a monkey, both in wisdom and in beauty and in everything else?” Shall we agree, Hippias, that the most beautiful maiden is ugly if compared with the gods? Socrates: Are these, the many, those who know the truth? For this reason I thought that if both are beautiful they must be beautiful by that essence which belongs to both, but not by that which is lacking in each; and I still think so. So, if it is all the same to you, I wish to take exceptions, that I may learn more vigorously. Hippias: Your reply, Socrates, seems to involve miracles again even greater than those of your previous reply. For the reason why that which is pleasant through sight is beautiful, is not, I imagine, because it is through sight; for if that were the cause of its being beautiful, the other pleasure, that through hearing, would not be beautiful; it certainly is not pleasure through sight.” Shall we say “What you say is true”? Hippias: I should have to be very inexperienced both in the nature of these things and in the language of our present discussion. Socrates: “Nor, again, is the pleasure through hearing beautiful for the reason that it is through hearing; for in that case, again, the pleasure through sight would not be beautiful; it certainly is not pleasure through hearing.” Shall we say, Hippias, that the man who says that speaks the truth? Hippias: No, by Zeus, it does not appear so to me. Socrates: Certainly, Hippias; now you understand beautifully. Is that true? Socrates: Is it impossible, then, for things which are really beautiful not to appear to be beautiful, at any rate when that is present which makes them appear so? Socrates: Shall we say, then, that both are beautiful, but that each is not? Socrates: “Is, then, that which is pleasant through sight,” he will say, “pleasant through sight and hearing, or is that which is pleasant through hearing pleasant through hearing and sight?” “No,” we shall say, “that which is pleasant through each of these would not in the least be pleasant through both — for that is what you appear to us to mean — but we said that either of these pleasant things would be beautiful alone by itself, and both together.” Is not that the reply we shall make? Socrates: Then for Heaven's sake, speak as quickly as you can. The Hippias Maior Defended Marion Soretti: Der Platonische Dialog Hippias Maior. 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